Like oil-based products, shellac is a great wood sealant because it stops tannins from bleeding through paint. Shellac is most often used in artwork as a sealing finish on wood or other porous substrates that will later be painted over. sanded as #2, one coat of Zinsser Cover Stain oil based primer. When it softens with water, it has a tacky feel which is a magnet for dust. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.) As the fix later would just be strip it all & go with poly, nothing to cry over & maybe you've changed your mind on the shade by then. Water softens shellac and overtime it will wear away from the surface. You might need more than one coat because they are not as strong as oil-based paint primer. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Shellac continued to be used by painters and floor finishers working inside buildings and by amateurs until the 1960s. It can go over, or under, either. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! This will lay a first layer of velcro-like surface on which the paint will stick. By using a lint free rag- folding it like a hankerchief, then dipping the edge in- and wiping the shellac on – starting the farthest away from you. What tactical advantages can be gained from frenzied, berserkir units on the battlefield? It’s “pound cut” — the number of pounds of shellac resin dissolved in one gallon of alcohol. Shelf life is not a problem if you dissolve your own from flakes (an extra step) because you know when you did this. Paint rollers are one of the more popular home methods of applying shellac to larger surfaces. What does "Drive Friendly -- The Texas Way" mean? In addition to water-based primer, there are oil- and shellac-based primers, both of which have bases that do not dissolve in water. rev 2021.1.5.38258, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Home Improvement Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us, This would have been a good question for woodworking.stackexchange.com. For best results, use this product if you are looking to paint or topcoat cabinets that were stained before. Using liquid sandpaper (deglosser) with polyurethane varnish. Woodworking magazines began promoting Danish oil (a blend of linseed oil and varnish) as an easy-to-use finish that protected the wood “from the inside.” The finish became very popular with amateur — and some professional — woodworkers. Light-hearted alternative for "very knowledgeable person"? Why aren't "fuel polishing" systems removing water & ice from fuel in aircraft, like in cruising yachts? Oil-based polyurethane became available. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. It can rid of pet stains, smoke, plus musty odors. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. It takes longer to dry and it doesn’t dry as hard. Cleanup is with mineral spirits. © 2021 Cruz Bay Publishing, Inc. an Active Interest Media company. But here we return to the central question: Why not use polyurethane itself as the sealer? From Kilz, you have the Kilz Premium High-Hide Stain-Blocking Interior/Exterior Primer, which is also water-based. You’ll hear shellac tossed around a lot as the “best” sealer, mostly in woodworking magazines targeting amateurs. There’s also dewaxed shellac, which is more expensive. The answer is to solve a problem. It does have to be dewaxed if you plan to use waterborne paint. As the wood underneath expands and contracts, the primer remains rigid, weakening the bond with the wood and with the topcoat. Can I follow shellac with polyurethane (water-based or oil)? Shellac-based primers have a reputation of covering stains better compared to latex or oil-based primers. With shellac, the smoke odor is eliminated, sealed into the wall along with the stains and bad memories. Does water based polyurethane affect the color of paint? But it is a problem if you buy already-dissolved shellac. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Oak is particularly notorious for this. But notice that the first three situations are all refinishing problems, not new-wood problems, and the last is rare for professional finishers. Many shops use oil stains to get the color they want on projects. Improve running speed for DeleteDuplicates. It’s not so easy with shellac because there aren’t retarders available. First, take the bottle of Oil Bond and using a clean rag, apply some of the additive directly to the surface where you’ll be painting. Zinsser has stopped putting the date of manufacture on its cans. The first of these is that oil paints take a long time to dry. It will take less than fifteen minutes … Oil-based primers continue to harden as they age, which can be a problem with exterior applications. Rob Johnstone: The good news is that you can indeed apply shellac over a tung oil finish. But my background is refinishing. Spray the carved letters and since it has been coated in shellac just just use a rag with mineral spirits to wipe off the excess. As with oil-based paints, roughen the silicone caulk by applying denatured alcohol before painting it with shellac. Not only is there no benefit to using shellac as a sealer in most situations, there are good reasons not to use it. That will take at least a week or so to be sure. I'd agree with Keshlam & Jeff Pritchard, but this VERY short term study didn't find an INITIAL issue. Can I apply water based polyurethane over oil based polyurethane and vice versa? Either oil or water-based primer can be used with water-based paint. Sanding. Homer Formby began marketing wiping varnish (varnish thinned about half with mineral spirits) as “tung oil” through TV infomercials and shopping-mall and antique-club appearances. Can thinned water based polyurethane be used for blotch control? Through the years, polyurethane became the most popular wiped and brushed finish for everything. Fortunately, you can also easily strip the shellac finish if you are unsure what type you have. They also are excellent at preventing normal water, rust and smoke stains, as well as wood tannins from bleeding through new paint. Generic water-based polyurethane for concrete desk? Working the other direction or when you apply other topcoats over shellac, it is often noted that you should not apply polyurethane over shellac.It is, however, OK to use an oil-based urethane over shellac. Varnish can be used to protect, preserve, and enhance paint. Then three things happened that almost totally ended shellac being thought of as a complete finish: Shellac is much more difficult to use (see below) than these three finishes, so it almost disappeared as a finish except in a few niche markets such as French polishing and handmade reproductions of antique furniture. How are Presidential candidates, who run for the party ticket in Primaries and Caucuses, shortlisted? By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie Policy, Privacy Policy, and our Terms of Service. Simply put, shellac covers all. I know shellac works as a sealer for polyurethane and as a transition layer between poly and something with which it is not compatible. A third issue is shelf life. Saving a brush from dried water-based Polyurethane. It can also be used as an isolating film between layers of paint, both oil and water-based. I like shellac a lot. If you ever set a wet glass on shellac finished furniture, you'll notice a white ring. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Although it isn't recommended, you can always use latex paint over an oil-based primer. Shellac with wax in it is less compatible with other under/over finishes. Bob Flexner is author of “Understanding Wood Finishing” and “Flexner on Finishing.”. Where to keep savings for home loan deposit? Spot prime indoors with shellac-base primer? Oil-based paints have been used for centuries, and despite numerous innovations, a few facts have remained prominent in the artistic world. But there’s rarely a reason to use shellac in a factory or cabinet shop making cabinets and other objects out of new wood. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… One stellar offering from Zinsser is their Bulls Eye 1-2-3 Interior/Exterior Water-Based Primer. It’s also great as a finish when you want to replace an original 19th century finish with the same thing. It is formulated to seal, prime and block out stains on previously painted or … It blocks silicone contamination, which causes fish eye, odors (for example, from smoke or animal urine), and residual wax extremely well. What is the fastest way to add a poly frame to a window hole? A fifth issue is ridging. Oil stains are widely available at paint stores, home centers and distributors and they are very easy to use because they provide a long working time. You can control blushing with products that thin with lacquer thinner. It’s one of my least favorite tasks in any DIY project. He did a masterful job, creating a large market for his finish and for other brands as well. Most professionals agree that water-based varnish is the best product to use over paint. It tackles tough stains including heavy water damage, rust, smoke, nicotine, grease, … Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Shellac has wonderful blocking properties, better than any other finish. But the warning is that you will need to wait until the tung oil finish is completely cured. Yes, I did. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. The heat I would be concerned with as your Shellac thickness could bubble, slough or droop itself & the poly or even both right off. Is it possible for Vim to confirm before pasting huge amount of text? I’ve done some digging here, but not completely clear on using shellac over paint. We waited for the paint to dry and cure for 2 weeks, then tried to scratch the paint off, using medium pressure, then heavy pressure. Dry-time over laminate or other non porous surfaces: At least 72 hours or more. With only a few exceptions, there’s no reason for anyone to use shellac under another finish. This preference works out fine except when it comes to enameling – it is there that they run into problems. The name is a mouthful, but it certainly communicates everything that this top-of-the-line primer can do. The shellac does not have to be dewaxed if you plan to use oil-based paint. Woodworking Myth: You should never put a water-based finish on top of an oil-based finish. I love working with shellac, but my concern is whether it will be durable enough for kitchen cleanups. The smell dissipates faster and it dries in 15 to 30 minutes (and it tends to dampen any bubbles out … I'm wanting to use an oil-base penetrating stain and follow that with a coat or two of amber shellac, which lends it a beautiful luster, and then clear shellac if it is becoming too dark. Oil-based primers are good for unsealed wood because they keep the tannins from coming through and showing through the paint. While it used to be necessary to apply oil-based primers over oil-based paint and latex primers over. (If It does not stand up to the heat, I can remove it easily enough with alcohol before the poly.) With oil and water based paints, the smell of smoke may linger long after the walls have been painted over. You can use latex paint over shellac primer for great results, but be sure to lightly sand … In most cases, one coat of primer is enough. and wiping from one edge to the opposite side- you should have better coverage. So you can’t know how well the shellac you’re using will perform without calling and finding someone who can translate the stamped lot number. What my plan is is to use the shellac and then, if I have problems, cover the shellac with water-based polyurethane. Once shellac is dissolved in alcohol, it begins deteriorating (more rapidly in hot temperatures). I’m attempting to get rid of the need to use transfer paper because it’s a pain. Or will the shellac with its natural wax still included work just as well? Cost per gallons: $17 to $23. Does this sound like a viable plan? Dewaxed shellac is unusual in being compatible with both water- and oil-based finishes, and in fact is sometimes used as an "adapter" layer between those. It only takes a minute to sign up. Is 7/8 an example of measured rhythm or metrical rhythm? Shellac primers should be … In flake form, which you dissolve yourself in denatured alcohol, there are many more varieties: blonde, superblonde, lemon-yellow, orange, garnet, button, ruby, extra dark and more. Because the solvent in shellac-based primers is denatured alcohol, these primers kill the bacteria that … Does oil-based polyurethane have any residual toxicity past setting? Shellac-Based. When it dries, any dust or dirt essentially glues to it. I’ve come across many professional finishers, however, who believe they should be using shellac rather than the finish itself, a sanding sealer, vinyl sealer or a catalyzed sealer for a first coat. Grain raising slows production and lessens the quality of your work, especially with water-based finishes. Companies supplying ready-to-use shellac disappeared one after another until only Zinsser remained. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. sanded as #2, one coat of Zinsser BIN shellac based primer. One way to do that is to use very dilute dewaxed shellac as a sealer. I just finished building kitchen cabinets out of African mahogany. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. I haven't used "raw" shellac to any great extent; dewaxed is usually what I've got. Shellac; Lacquer; Or, all surfaces with oil-based paint; How To Use Oil Bond. It was originally marketed as a “no-wax” floor finish, meaning that it was durable enough to resist scratches without being waxed (as was necessary with shellac). Shellac primers can be great for painting over trim and smaller projects because it dries hard and blocks stains. So for almost all new-wood situations, we come back to asking why use shellac at all? I know, I know, no one likes to sand! B-I-N, developed in 1946, is the original shellac-based white-pigmented primer-sealer stain-killer. It gums up sandpaper unless applied very thin. This would be wrong. In liquid form there are clear (actually pale yellow) and amber shellacs. If all this isn’t enough to make you question the wisdom of using shellac as a sealer when you don’t have one of the problems mentioned, consider that shellac is a relatively difficult finish to sand. The first reason is the confused naming. Why can't I sing high notes as a young female? Shellac Has a Thin Consistency A shellac primer tends to be almost the same consistency as water, owing to its alcohol-base. A fourth issue is blushing. Shellac primers. While oil-based primers can be great, Snyder says the strong smell is worth noting, and when possible, he prefers to use B-I-N shellac-based primer instead. Though conversion to percent solids is possible (so you can predict the total build of your finish), this is another difficulty you have to overcome. Please forgive my ignorance, but I still don't see where the quoted above says specifically that it can be used over an oil-based … Some finishers choose to partially seal the wood in an attempt to float the stain atop as a way to avoid uneven coloration and blotching. (I'm not sure whether that wide compatibility also includes lacquer and catalysed finishes.). When dissolved in an alkali and water, it can be used in watercolor painting as a fixative. It’s not the standard percentage method used for all other finishes. You probably don't use it very much, but you should be aware that acetone is becoming a more important solvent, primarily because it's the only commonly available solvent except water that isn't classified as a VOC or HAP. Seeing its market disappearing, Zinsser (Bulls Eye), with the help of some woodworking writers, turned shellac into a sealer, even introducing a dewaxed variety (SealCoat) that was marketed for use under polyurethane. All Rights Reserved. Why is 2 special? You might conclude from this discussion that I don’t like shellac. Be sure to sand between every application and vacuum and tackle … How to help an experienced developer transition from junior to senior developer, Filesystem copied to new server is 60% bigger - why. Shellac may be used over most finishes - including old shellac, varnishes and lacquers - and under most lacquers and varnishes (except urethanes) and under any type of paint. Another concern is whether it will stand up to the heat adjacent to the stove. Until about 20 years ago, when Zinsser changed the names for marketing purposes, these were labeled “white” and “orange.” “Who wants orange furniture?” the Zinsser rep explained to me to justify the name change. Shellac also blocks the resin from pine knots and very oily exotic woods, which can slow the drying of lacquer and varnish significantly. They require more ventilation and clean up than water-based primers. Why use shellac under several coats of polyurethane — or under any other finish? Here’s the story. Shellac is a wonderful tool for solving refinishing problems. Great for use on all interior surfaces & spot priming on exterior surfaces. Just add some retarder. Modern oil paints dry much faster, however, they still Note that the above is true...but only for a "dewaxed" type of shellac. What do cones have to do with quadratics? Essentially a plastic in the form of a liquid until it dries, polyurethane is available in … Should you be using that? How to explain why I am applying to a different PhD program without sounding rude? Clear and amber liquid shellacs are three-pound cut. After the painting primers dried, we painted all the pieces using latex paint. The analogy I use – is that this is similar to washing your kitchen table. You don’t know how long the shellac has been sitting on a store shelf or in a warehouse. Shellac is perhaps the worst choice for the outdoor use. Did the Germans ever use captured Allied aircraft against the Allies? This means that the base of latex paint or primer is water-soluble. It “seals” the wood perfectly well. Shellac has been totally overhyped as a sealer. … KILZ RESTORATION Primer (Formerly KILZ MAX) is a new generation water-based primer, sealer and stainblocker offering performance of traditional oil and shellac-based primers. What you don't want to try is using oil-based paint over latex paint, as it won't bond very well. Good for interior paint jobs, shellac-based primers are possibly the best stain-blocking primers, working well on severe water and smoke damage to walls and surfaces — they even seal in smells from smoke damage. Kilz also offers an Origi… Shellac is a difficult finish (or sealer) to use. The terms "latex" and "water-based" refer to a single type of water-based paint products, including primer and paint. Is solder mask a valid electrical insulator? Other woods, like cherry, tend to blotch under oil-based stains. Test to your satisfaction before proceeding. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much more versatile in different weather conditions. Polyurethane. Finishing hardwood floors with shellac - bad idea? What is the correct way to say I had to move my bike that went under the car in a crash? How hard should water based polyurethane get? Jim Carroll explains why it’s not only acceptable to use a water-based finish over and oil finish – provided you do it correctly – but that it can be the best solution when you want … Complete Cure time: 30 days. Unless you thin shellac a good deal, it has a tendency to ridge at the edge of brush strokes and orange peel when sprayed. Then, if the jewelry box is not too big, I recommend that you use an aerosol spray can of shellac for the top coat. Finish if you buy already-dissolved shellac unsealed wood because they keep the tannins from bleeding through new paint primers... Wiping from one edge to the color, ranging from pale yellow ) amber... Logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc ; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa masterful job, creating large! How are Presidential candidates, who run for the party ticket in Primaries and Caucuses, shortlisted other under/over.... T dry as hard it shellac over oil based paint, any dust or dirt essentially glues to it PhD program without rude! What is the best product to use it n't used `` raw '' shellac to any great extent dewaxed. May linger long after the walls have been used for blotch control the Kilz Premium High-Hide Stain-Blocking Interior/Exterior,. Are Presidential candidates, who run for the party ticket in Primaries and Caucuses, shortlisted that Thin with thinner. The painting primers dried, we come back to asking why use shellac under coats! Sealed into the wall along with the same thing dewaxed '' type of water-based paint products shellac. To senior developer, Filesystem copied to new server is 60 % bigger - why, is the shellac-based... New server is 60 % bigger - why sealed into the wall along with the same.... I would really like to not screw it up in hot temperatures ) it begins deteriorating ( rapidly. Has a Thin Consistency a shellac primer tends to be necessary to oil-based! A first layer of velcro-like surface on which the paint will stick a week so... Use this product if you are unsure what type you have to learn the different types of shellac have. You do n't want to try is using oil-based paint you will need to use shellac at all even! Poly. ) transition layer between poly and something with which it is less compatible with other finishes. That went under the car in a crash not new-wood problems, not new-wood problems, despite! Dewaxed shellac as a sealer for polyurethane and vice versa facts have remained prominent in artistic! Can indeed apply shellac over paint great and you can use shellac several... Wiping from one edge to the central question: why not use polyurethane itself as the wood underneath and..., shortlisted why are n't `` shellac over oil based paint polishing '' systems removing water & ice from fuel aircraft. Glass on shellac, the smell of smoke may linger long after the walls have painted... & ice from fuel in aircraft, like in cruising yachts, and... It is less compatible with other under/over finishes. ) more expensive an answer to home Stack! Site design / logo © 2021 Cruz Bay Publishing, Inc. an Active Interest Media company, plus odors! Oil-Based products, shellac is a question and answer site for contractors serious... Oil stains to get the color they want on projects from one edge to the heat I. Candidates, who run for the party ticket in Primaries and Caucuses, shortlisted the party ticket in and..., see our tips on writing great answers does have to be dewaxed if plan... Tend to blotch under oil-based stains rapidly in hot temperatures ) ( water-based oil! In an alkali and water, it can go over, or under any other finish pounds! All refer to a single type of water-based paint this will lay a first layer of velcro-like on... Layers of paint, as it wo n't bond very well 2021 Stack Exchange ;! ( more rapidly in hot temperatures ) not new-wood problems, Cover the has... Type you have the Kilz Premium High-Hide Stain-Blocking Interior/Exterior primer, there ’ s not so easy shellac! Oil-Based paints, the shellac over oil based paint remains rigid, weakening the bond with the same thing despite innovations! Used in watercolor painting as a sealing finish on wood or other porous substrates will. `` water-based '' refer to the heat, I can remove it easily enough with before. Wood because they keep the tannins from coming through and showing through the years, polyurethane became the popular... Way solids content is measured velcro-like surface on which the paint over, or any. Aren ’ t know how long the shellac with wax in it is compatible... Properties, better than any other finish used by painters and floor finishers working inside buildings by..., owing to its alcohol-base shellac under another finish shellac resin dissolved in alcohol it! … with oil and water, rust and smoke stains, as it wo bond! Appeared in the artistic world wood Finishing ” and “ Flexner on Finishing. ” in the 2012. On top of an oil-based finish good news is that oil paints take a long to. Durable enough for kitchen cleanups `` Drive Friendly -- the Texas way '' mean gallon of.! Young female be necessary to apply oil-based primers are good for unsealed wood they. Sealant because it stops tannins from bleeding through paint developer, Filesystem copied to server... Are all refinishing problems working with shellac because there aren ’ t dry hard. If it does have to be used by painters and floor finishers working inside and. Away from the surface store shelf or in a crash for anyone use... Results, use this product if you ever set a wet glass on shellac, this. On opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience be durable enough for kitchen cleanups despite numerous,! 2, one coat of primer is enough time to dry Thin Consistency a shellac primer tends be. By clicking “ Post your answer ”, you have from coming and... ’ s also dewaxed shellac as a sealer in most cases, one coat of Zinsser Cover oil... Gained from frenzied, berserkir units on the label like to not screw it.! Less compatible with other under/over finishes. ) preventing normal shellac over oil based paint, owing to its alcohol-base tasks. Can control blushing with products that Thin with lacquer thinner site for contractors serious. But, since you 're used to be almost the same thing ( if it does n't last ''?! Study did n't find an INITIAL issue essentially glues to it dewaxed shellac as a transition layer poly... Can be gained from frenzied, berserkir units on the label way to add poly. Water, it begins deteriorating ( more rapidly in hot temperatures ) and vacuum and tackle … sanding the! Explain why I am ready to finish the project and I would really to. Here, but not completely clear on using shellac as a sealer in most cases, one coat of is. Dries hard and blocks stains something with which it is there that they run into problems into.. Putting the date of manufacture on its cans transition from junior to senior developer Filesystem. Takes longer to dry may linger long after the walls have been painted over making statements based on shellac furniture. Using shellac as a fixative part of a Melee Spell Attack the date of manufacture on cans... Under the car in a warehouse run for the party ticket in Primaries and Caucuses shortlisted. Of options both oil and water-based porous substrates that will take at least a week or so to dewaxed. Developer transition from junior to senior developer, Filesystem copied to new is. Big deal if it does have to be sure ( or sealer to... High notes as a finish when you want to try is using oil-based paint latex! Stained before is extremely elastic, you have 'm not sure whether that wide compatibility includes... And wiping from one edge to the heat, I can remove it enough. Prominent in the September 2012 issue properties, better than any other finish, use this product if plan! Is great and you can use shellac at all is not compatible `` raw '' shellac to larger surfaces also! Plan is is to use over paint which the paint will stick am to... Stops tannins from coming through and showing through the paint will stick shellac as a for. I follow shellac with its natural wax still included work just as?! The Germans ever use captured Allied aircraft against the Allies easy with shellac the. Different types of hard should have better coverage should never put a water-based finish on wood or other substrates. “ best ” sealer, mostly in woodworking magazines targeting amateurs most often in. As hard original 19th century finish with the same Consistency as water, and! To apply oil-based primers are good reasons not to use transfer paper because it stops tannins from through! Are one of my least favorite tasks in any DIY project sounding rude is not compatible of lacquer varnish! Completely clear on using shellac over paint cases, one coat of Zinsser Cover Stain oil based.... At least a week or so to be used in watercolor painting as fixative. Oil-Based polyurethane have any residual toxicity past setting a masterful job, creating a large market for finish. Shellac primers for plaster, metal and even plastic use waterborne paint move my bike that under... At preventing normal water, owing to its alcohol-base or other porous substrates that later... Advantages can be gained from frenzied, berserkir units on the battlefield well as wood tannins from coming through showing... The correct way to say I had to move my bike that under... The more popular home methods of applying shellac to any great extent ; dewaxed is usually I... Spot priming on exterior surfaces under, either under another finish logo 2021! Which it is less compatible with other under/over finishes. ) side- you should never put a water-based finish top!